Our Relationship with the Shankaracharya 27/01/11

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fiona
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Our Relationship with the Shankaracharya 27/01/11

Postby fiona » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Cheltenham group meeting notes 27/01/11

Exploring the 1988 Audiences
Part 2: Our Relationship with the Shakaracharya tradition


We had received the paper during the week prior to this meeting.The majority of us had familiarised ourselves with it and the questions it contained. An absent member of the group sent responses to us, and these can be read following this posting. The questions we were asked to consider (on page 5 of the paper) are:
Are we really engaged in spiritual work? Do we, individually, feel we have everything we need? We certainly have a huge amount of material, and answers to almost every question. Do we fully understand it all? How much of it are we putting into practice, and for how much of the time?
If over the last 20 years or so, enough of us were practising enough of it for enough of the time, then surely at least one of use would be fully realised by now? So what is holding us back? What sort of help do we need?


• One member had recorded her immediate responses to the questions: First, I asked myself what I understood by “spiritual” work. For me, it’s learning more and more each day about that divine love which permeates us and the universe. It’s about relationship – with our lives and with others, and with the Knowledge and the Meditation. It’s connecting with the silence and stillness and peace and bliss. Do I have everything I need? I feel positive about this. The relationship with ParamAtman was established when I first came to the Work. It guides and directs. It is there in the heart most strongly, and in the head. It is what I am becoming. No, I don’t fully understand it all, or I’d be realised! H.H. has told us to take what we need. It’s the small leaps of the frog. It lives and grows by putting it into practice. Also trust, confidence and faith. It’s being shown to one all the time. This question about 20 years – well, I can’t relate to this Work on a physical timescale. Surely, the connection is too subtle? H.H. has told us that ‘The tradition of Advaita is beyond moving time.’What holds me back? The mental process: desires get in the way. But then I’ve learnt not to beat myself up about it. Yes, I stumble and fall, but, hey – one is always picked up and what’s more, one is being taught how to pick oneself up. The help is here: apart from the Knowledge and the Meditation, there is an awareness of a divine love in the heart. Such good company.’

• Another member said that he felt it all just happens, and the more he might try to do it, the worse it gets. He is conscious of something that guides, but this is occuring slowly to him. He feels it is not up to him. Anything real has to come from within. The ‘tricks’ that were mentioned in the readings do not have any appeal to him. It is like being on the train, and the train will take you there. Of course it gets frustrating at times, but it also gives him great courage.
Someone countered that the fact that we are all still here and coming to meetings, doesn’t necessarily mean we are on that train. Some might come for reasons other than spiritual work – e.g. for comfort, or as a reminder of living a good life.
The response – ‘I couldn’t disagree with you more about the question of reasons. People are at different points in the Work.’
A reply – ‘Being on the train is to do with effort. Effort means remembering in the moment now.’

If you were told that H.H. would be visiting your group this evening, what question would you ask him?

An example of one our responses:

• In order to unite with Brahman, one has to expand and encompass the whole of creation. Could H.H. give advice on expansion?
Last edited by fiona on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fiona
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:22 am

Response to Our Relationship with Shankaracharya

Postby fiona » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:09 pm

The following was submitted by a member of the Cheltenham Group who was absent from the meeting:

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AS A WAY OF TAKING STOCK AT THIS TIME IN MY LIFE

Are we really engaged in spiritual work?

Time and again it is language that seems a barrier. I feel engaged in a process of spiritual unfoldment that will carry on through many lifetimes. The knowledge set out by HH has put the world into right perspective so that I understand my place in it. So I am engaged in this ongoing process of surrendering my desires to the desires of the Absolute. So-called “spiritual work” is listening to the inner voice of conscience which is being cultivated by being immersed in the truth of the teaching that HH has given. However, our nature has some deep roots of attachment to this world and this blocks the listening process some of the time.

Do we feel we have everything we need?

The simple answer is “yes.” Each time I have thought about such a question I have come up with nothing that I need. We have been given enough ways to remember our true connection with the Absolute and if we fail to take advantage of it, we forgive ourselves and move on. Every time we hear the wisdom of the Teaching inroads within the Mind are cut ever more slightly deeper until some permanent attitude is attained that brings us closer to knowing our true Self. Patience along with confidence are the greatest virtues.

Do we understand it all?

The simple answer is “No.” However, for me this is not a problem and I am not concerned with it. There is sufficient knowledge that has infused the Mind to allow for progress, informing my intuition. I do not feel that I have to bring my intellect to bear to a great extent. Just enough to heighten the positive emotions that carry us on.

How much of it all are we putting into practice and how much of the time?

This question cannot be answered because at any one given moment we might be putting all of it into practice even though we don’t realize that we are. At other times, none of it when our nature slips away from the great purpose. But I never feel guilty that I have forgot my connection with the Absolute. I observe it and just move on and I am content with the process.
I feel that we do not have to confess to others our shortcomings about practice or about how much of our time we turn our attention to it. We are on the train headed in the right direction and however long the journey is back to the source we cannot know. It is all a measurement of our level of contentment.

Why are we not realized and what is holding us back?

First of all how many fully Self-Realized beings are there on the planet? It must be a very tiny percentage of the world’s population. So it is quite understandable that no one in the Study Society has attained it even if they were attempting to put into practice everything given them regularly. Some say that Dr Roles attained it. I would say that he was very close to it. But look what it took for him. All the work with PDO, then all the audiences with HH and then giving himself over to it full-time as our Teacher.

This is why men in India leave their family life and go into ashrams so that they can devote themselves full-time to their spiritual life. I would like to know who has attained full Self-Realization and remained living a Fourth Way life until the end. It is quite basic. The roots of our attachment to this world and negative emotions run quite deep through many lifetimes. So even full diligence to “spiritual work” in one lifetime is no guarantee that this will be it.

I have a feeling that I might, in future, leave a Fourth Way of life and spend more time in a full Bhakti way of life, for whatever our predominance, I know that the goal cannot be attained without devotion, especially to others.

Areas of confusion and doubt? None. My aim is to keep surrendering and to rest in a spiritual contentment. I do not wish to call the aim “self-realization” for my own personal reasons.

Without any arrogance I can say that I would have no questions for HH. He has given me all that I require to follow on the path of removing the ignorance that envelops our soul.. I would simply express my deepest gratitude and ask for His blessing.

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Rumpelteazer
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Re: Our Relationship with the Shankaracharya 27/01/11

Postby Rumpelteazer » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:05 pm

Fiona asked me to upload the paper, which is attached.
Reconnection v3-1.doc
(52.5 KiB) Downloaded 372 times

Initially I felt somewhat sad and lonely listening to the responses at the meeting to the question "Do we, individually, feel we have everything we need":
  • "Yes. We can't do anything, it just happens. But we are all on the train."
  • "Yes - I receive everything I need from the Atman within."
  • "The simple answer is 'yes'."
It seemed to me that the quotes from H.H. in the paper explained so clearly that if we are "really engaged in spiritual" work the answer has to be "no". And I didn't need H.H. to tell me that.

But then when we came to the final quotation in the paper: "Every spiritual truth, however simple, is at once distorted when it reaches an unrealized person", one member of the group asked "so how can we ever understand the truth, if it's distorted by the time it reaches our brains" and this excellent and thoughtful question raised my spirits.

The questioner went on to explain how some years ago he had obtained a copy of the Record and started reading it in the belief that he would then have all the answers to everything. But he soon realised that he just didn't fully understand it and that he couldn't get the answers that way. We then talked about the external help that is needed for removal of hindrances leading step by step to increased understanding.

Thinking about what I really need, the most important thing would be more frequent contact with people who know they don't have everything they need, who believe that Self-Realisation is possible for them in this lifetime, and who want to work within the structure of a real School that is connected with a fully realised person. Each helping each other. While there are still a few people who feel the same way, there is hope.


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